[ In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful ]
[ Minister: We are very pleased to be here. Allamah Turabi, who has been one of Ayatullah's pupils, encouraged us to make this trip. We are all worried about Iran. In the present century, Pakistan, for the first time, propounded the issue of establishing an Islamic Republic. In Pakistan, the government is based on Islamic rules and the system is Islamic. We, especially the Shiah, are very concerned. Although the relation between the Shiah and the Sunnis is good, it is not good enough. We are waiting to see changes in Iran and the progress of the Revolution, and to see the effects it may have on the Shiah-Sunni relationship. ]
Imam: I hope that we succeed in this Iranian Islamic movement, which is specifically Islamic and is carried out to achieve Islamic goals with absolutely humane intentions, and that our dream, which is Islam and its commands- in which the Muslims' independence and freedom has been guaranteed- come true. I hope we achieve this victory. These Muslims, as Islam has instructed, must unite and become one, so their wishes and dreams may be realized; and Islam's instructions may be enforced everywhere in the world. May God, the Exalted, bless all of the Muslims.
[ Minister: I called General Zia al-Haqq before coming, and informed him of my visit with Ayatullah. He gave his warmest regards. He said that Pakistan and Iran have been friends for many years. This friendship has started since the establishment of Pakistan. In Pakistan, we consider Iran's problems as Iran's internal affairs; however, we are ready to do whatever is in our power to fulfill Ayatullah's wishes and expectations. ] Imam: This movement in Iran, that is the Islamic movement, is a humane one. It is an Islamic-humane movement. If any human, any Muslim becomes aware of Iran's situation, he will offer help to the Iranians who have been under pressure for many years, and have lost all their national prestige, underground resources and manpower by the foreign agents. However, we do thank the President of Pakistan who has been understanding, and expect propaganda support from him in this movement- just like the propaganda and other supports that the major countries are giving to the Shah. That is why he is still in power; otherwise, he has no popularity among the people and would not be able to live in Iran for an hour. We expect all the people, especially the Muslims, to help the movement and by their support rid this oppressed nation of oppression. All these governments and nations can provide propaganda support. Nevertheless, the governments have either not yet paid attention to our problems or they have been profit-seekers and regardless of the cruelty that is going on, have been backing up the Shah. None of them has taken sides with a weak nation, which is on the verge of being crushed.
You are among the first people who have offered support to us and we do expect you to announce your assistance on the radio, in the press and in your interviews.
[ Minister: You know that Pakistan is a poor country going through a crucial phase in history. We have our own internal problems. We also rely on many major powers. Particularly, we depend on powers for economic assistance for our existence. We belong to a world in which certain diplomatic relations and circumstances are to be followed by independent countries. Although, we feel for Iran, we cannot interfere in Iran's internal affairs; however, if Ayatullah thinks we can somehow be of any help in any way to mediate between the two parties, we will do so. ]
Imam: The Shah's case does not qualify for mediation. The Shah has plundered the nation and has committed awful crimes wholeheartedly during the past thirty years or so. Today, the people of Iran have stood up consciously and wakefully, and are demanding basic human rights, which are freedom and independence; the Shah has no foundation in Iran and he is not worth a compromise. We cannot describe the wrong doings and crimes that this man has committed in Iran in one or two sessions. You must inquire from your embassies about Iran's circumstances so that you could realize that Iran is demanding for a legitimate right and the Shah has lost legitimacy, and in my opinion, his and his father's rules were never legitimate to start with. I implore God, the Exalted, for the Muslim government and nation of Pakistan
to achieve their humane and Islamic wishes, find the way to their independence and liberty, and acquire whatever they desire, just as Iranians have done by uprising.
[ Minister: Our information suggests that in Iran's present situation, thousands and hundreds of thousands of people are going through terrible hardships; they are all our Shiah brothers. According to statistics and news, people's normal lives in cities and villages have been disturbed. Lack of food and stoppage of transportation means have completely brought life to a standstill. It is the awareness and emotions that cause our Shiah brothers to try to present a solution. I am a cabinet member. We have some information that if you would allow me, I will deliver. America and Russia have come to an agreement. Russia will not interfere in Iran's affairs because a war with America will not be easy. It is possible to move step by step, and through a relative cooperation with the government at this stage, in order to familiarize people with the way to run the country and to deal with affairs; the regular life of people will not be disturbed and the people who are starving to death, will survive this catastrophe. ]
Imam: But it is the Shah who has disturbed the lives of the people. We have some oil that has been extracted and reserved, that will last a while; but according to reliable sources, the Shah does not let our own oil get to us. They say, the income earned from the export of oil, which is to be spent on the country, goes to Israel. The government agents store the wheat after midnight to create problems for the people, and they are responsible for other aggravations too that make life harder. But our people suffer through all these hardships in order to achieve their goals. But such agreement between him and the[ American and British ]government for hindering in our internal affairs, has been made in the past, and if hindering means military interference, then such agreement is impossible to be made. If it means any other type of interference, America has done it all before. We want to rid ourselves of their control. This uprising is an Islamic one; if we face hardships and failures, it will be all for God's and Islam's sake and we have done our duty. We have the same logic of the Muslims of the early Islamic era that says, if we are killed in the war with unbelievers, we will go to heaven and if we kill, we will still go to heaven. The Shah is more unpleasant to us than the outside interferences. If others interfere by force and weapons, they cannot survive in Iran as experienced by the invaders throughout the history. People will not settle for any compromises. They have seen so many crimes that they will neither allow any foreign intervention, nor for the Shah to remain in power.
[ Minister: I do not mean military intervention; let me make myself clear. Based on our information, the Shah is not willing to retreat under any circumstances. The army will continue supporting him. It is obvious and we know that the pressure on the people is high. According to our information, the Shah is ready to accept some terms at this stage. Therefore, if some sort of cooperation could be established, by having short-term goals in mind, you will perhaps achieve your goals in a longer process. However, we believe that the Shah is willing to make some agreement regarding less killings and less pressure on the people. ]
Imam: You do not know the Shah as well as I do. I have raised him; I know him well. This is not his first time sending a mediator. He has even sent a mediator to say," I will give you the army; I will give you the whole government and I, meaning the Shah, will be just the king and will not interfere with the affairs." But I know him well. You do not know him. He is playing a trick; He is planning to mislead you and us. By your mediation, he wants to continue with his criminal life and stop this uprising, which is Islamic and has occurred in Iran, and confront Islam and Muslims by resorting to all his forces. He got so used to brutality and crimes since his childhood that it has turned into an addiction he cannot get rid of. Keep in mind, not to mediate for someone whose promise cannot be trusted and only misleads. We are sorry that we will not accept your mediation on this issue. People of Iran cannot accept the Shah. The mediation of people like King Hussein[ of Jordan ], King Hasan[ of Morocco ]and now you is not but for strengthening his power and continuing his crimes and murders, and we will be responsible before God if we make peace and cooperate with him. If we are to be defeated, we will not purposely defeat ourselves.[ Even ]if confronted with the military and violence, we will not deliberately let this treachery go on.
[ Minister: I have not been sent here by the Shah to mediate. When I told General Zia al-Haqq the intention of my trip and asked for his permission for this visit, he made a suggestion. Iran's situation will also influence the Shiah of Pakistan. We are a minority. Iran's situation will weaken the Shiah. It is these thoughts that have forced me to come forth and with all the respect, to give my views. I understand what Ayatullah says and feels. The only thing that I, the sinner, can do is to pray. I will go to Geneva tonight at one o'clock anyway, then two days in London with my family, and then back to Pakistan. If during this time, Ayatullah comes up with an idea or if there is something that we can do, let us know; I, personally, and our government will officially be at your service. ]
Imam: Thank you for your good intention, but your claim about our uprising weakening the Shiah of Pakistan, contradicts our information received from Shiah dwelling regions. A movement has begun among all Shiah dominant regions that we hope will set free the nations of their hardships. The issue is not about Shiah, but it is about Muslims. We are informed of the situation of various Islamic countries. We have been informed that the Iranian uprising has made an awakening among Arab countries and other regions; and we hope that if it comes to a conclusion, nations will also achieve their humane goals.
And I ask God, the Blessed and Exalted, for the opportunity to be a servant and also ask God the blessing for your service and that of others to Islam and the Islamic nation.
[ Minister: I am grateful and honored to have been received by you. Shiah in Pakistan are not in a good condition, because of the money that Saudi is spending. My prayer is that Iran becomes stronger than ever; and that this strength may encourage and enhance the Shiah condition in Pakistan. I know that Iran's movement is Islamic; but we are a minority in Pakistan and Iran's revolution will have a major effect on us. ]
Imam: We hope that Iran reaches a condition in which it can strengthen Shi`ah of other countries, and we hope that you would pray for us, too. Pray for us to succeed in this movement.
پاورقی:
["( 1 )This text is the detailed discussion between one of Zia al-Haqq's cabinet ministers and the Imam in Paris. Unfortunately, the minister's name and the date of the discussions have not been recorded on the main minutes. As Imam has pointed out during the discussion, the issue of mediation between the Shah and Imam had previously been also proposed by King Hasan of Morocco and King Hussein of Jordan. See Iran's Twenty Five Years History, vol. 2, pp. 342- 346."]